Planted Aquarium

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fastj1's picture
fastj1
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Hi I want to start a planted aquarium but i dont know where to start. Im looking to start of with a 20g tank.
I want to Start off kind of basic, something that will be a little forgiving since im just starting out. I would like to meet with someone to kind of learn by seeing how to setup and equip a low cost system. Any info i can gather will definitly help out. By the way i love this site and hope to talk with most of you guys. Thanks!

Jason

Carmon
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I'm too far away and no expert but I can make some plants suggestions. Wisteria, water sprite and hornwort are excellent beginner plants for the background or as floating plants. They are very forgiving, grow fast and keep your water very healthy. The hornwort even inhibits algae growth and with a little CO2, you will find yourself doing weekly pruning along with your water changes.

A fore- to mid-ground plant that I have had huge success with is pygmy chain sword. From one plant I have supplied two friends tanks from the runners. I also really like dwarf hair grass. It grows fast and I think looks much nicer than micro sword grass. If you have a few bottom cleaners you will find they love digging around in it for detritus and my white clouds have used it as their spawning ground.

If you have hungry herbivors or just fish who like to tear things up, I'm having good luck with all of the java ferns but they grow slowly so are more prone to collect algae. Same thing with the anubias. An excellent mid-ground plant for the plant destroyers turned out to be Japanese dwarf rush. It's a really lovely plant and too tough to be torn or uprooted.

As an experiment, I put wisteria cuttings and some pygmy chain swords out in one of my outdoor ponds that aren't heated yet to see how they would do. So far, both have survived temps right at freezing with no problems so I would say they are quite hardy! Horrid person that I am, I didn't even give them any time to acclimate, just put them out there. No growth in that cold water but they aren't dying either.

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fastj1
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Thanks Carmon, thats a good bit of information. Where is best place to find some of these plants? Some of them ive seen at some of LPS, but others I have not.

As far as filtration goes, what is the best way to go there? Some tanks iv seen dont have filters in them.
And will a home made co2 generator be enough for a 20g?

Jason

Carmon
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Like I said, no expert here! If you go to the bottom of the home page, Samuel has written a really good post on his views on filtration which just happen to match mine... Wink

On plants, we only have Walmart up here and you can imagine what that is like. I have ordered most of my plants online and one of the best sources I've found is Bob's Tropical Plants, www.bobstropicalplants.com . Bob's is owned by a fellow hobbyist and his plant prices are very fair and everything I've gotten from him, including inverts, has been very healthy and thriving still.

AquaBid.com is another great source for odds and ends from fellow hobbyists. I've also bought quite a few plants from Planted Aquariums Central, www.plantedaquariumscentral.com another home grower. Her prices are higher but her plants are very healthy and she is generous in quanitities. You might pay more but you get twice as much.

As for the old standards, there is Live Aquaria, www.liveaquaria.com , That Fish Place, www.thatpetplace.com and so on. If my wisteria keeps growing the way it has been, I'll have some cuttings of it to share when you are ready and would be glad if you just paid for mailing.

On the DIY CO2 generators, one should be plenty for a 20 gal. I used two on the 29 and three on the 40 and that has worked just great. I'll try to get some photos of my tanks to post. I just set up the new CO2 Bio Systems by Red Sea that I got and when I opened up the 'Bio Refill' can, I laughed out loud when I realized it was just sugar and a little tube of yeast for $6.99! What I love about it though is the micro diffusion pump that comes with it. I ordered them from Aquarium Guys, www.aquariumguys.com , on sale. What attracted me was only needing to change out the canister once a month instead of every 10 - 14 days. I'll hang onto one of the little cans and tubes as a measure and just mix my own sugar and yeast, thank you very much!

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Samuel Mulder
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In order to get away with no filters, you have to have a ton of plants per fish. In this case, its not that you have no filtration, but that the plants are the filtration. That's how lakes work in the real world. However, in a tank you have such a small volume of water that you really need a large margin of safety to make it work consistently, so you need lots of plants and almost no fish. I'd still recommend doing regular water testing and making sure that condition are under control if you decide to go that route.

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fastj1
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Well I had a few extra items lying around so I set up a small test aquarium with plants. It has a few plants that were a small mixed grouping that i split up and placed around the tank(they came with another tank i rescued). Its a 10 gallon with turface substrate and a little manzanita with 2 rocks so far. For filtration i had a 15g HOB type filter, so that went in too.

The next step in my process will be to make a co2 generator. One thing im finding is the need for a diffuser. Does anyone have a different idea then chopsticks or the little glass diffuser thing?

One place i screwed up was not rinsing out my substrate before filling with water,So now i have a 10g cloud. Im letting things settle a bit before adding anything else. Id like to put shrimp in there and a few neons for color.

Jason

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You can run your CO2 into the HOB filter and the impeller will break up the CO2 bubbles and then distribute them in the tank. A couple of other notes to consider will be a way to monitor the CO2 level in your aquarium. Take a look at this site, http://www.njagc.net/articles/co2dropchecker.htm. I have not personally read the whole thing but it appears to give a lot of really good information regarding a "drop checker" and why it is necessary. This is especially true with DIY CO2. Also make sure you have a check valve on your line running into your diffuser device (whatever that may be). If your CO2 generator is below your waterline there is a chance that it could start to siphon off water from the tank which could lead to puddles. You also need to watch out for overfilling your CO2 generator with water. It will make bubbles and muck from the yeast and if you overfill it will spill out into the tank. I do not think it is harmless (never read anything that said otherwise), but it will still make a mess of your tank. And finally, if you have not read this already, DIY CO2 could explode (albeit very unlikely). Make sure that there are no restrictions or other items that could block the ability for the pressure to be released. I have read some posts of people coming home to find DIY CO2 muck splattered all over the room, not to mention the plastic shrapnel that it could cause. I am not trying to be Gordon Gloom here, but just wanting to make you aware. Simple precautions will easily mitigate these risks.

So once you are setup, what lighting will you use and will you be fertilizing? With CO2, you will need more light than standard aquariums provide in order to take advantage of the increased carbon nutrient. With CO2 you will start to see major plant growth but you also need to consider another nutrient source or you will start seeing problems with the plants. These may be in the form of holes in the leaves, brown leaves, and algae. When your tank is out of balance regarding nutrients, light, and CO2 it creates an environment where algae can take over. You want your plants to compete with, and beat the algae for the uptake of nutrients. Depending on your plants you may just be able to use root tab fertilizers or you can use the others. This is the fertilization method I use on my tanks: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/pps-analysis-feedback/39491-.... I have also read (here is an example post: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/7945-j...) about enthusiasts using Jobes Plant Sticks rather than the super expensive Aquarium branded root tabs. Something to think about as you progress.

Also, I should have some plants if you wanted some extras. I have some Stargrass(Heteranthera zosterifolia), Bacopa Caroliniana, and some Rotala species, but I do not know the specific name. all of these are grown in lower light tanks and would do great in yours.

Hope that helps.

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fastj1
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Yesterday( with the help of Intermediate_Noob, Thanks!) I was able to get my 65 gallon tank filled with some greenery. My little 10g that i started as a test tank got some plants also.

The size of my 65 is 18x24x36 so its tall and has good depth, plus the back is mirror which makes the tank appear deeper then it is. Right now the lighting is low on my tank(17w fl grow lamp) but i would to like to put more light in. Theres a nice group of about a dozen or more Endlers in there, forgot to count them, but disappear in the background quickly. Im sure they will be everywhere before I know it.

My 10g on the other hand has 2 13w cfl's in the hood so theres a fair amount of light in that one. There are 10 ghost shrimp in there right now, some holding, but ive never seen any tiny shrimp in previous dealings
with them. Im not sure if I had improper parameters for them or if they just got eaten. Id like to get a few other types of shrimp soon but not to interested in ordering them from the net if I dont have to.

This is what the tanks look like right now. Hopefully, if all goes good, ill have some good looking planted tanks for first time setups.

Thanks to those of you that helped out too! I do appreciate it! 10g Planted Tank10g Planted Tank65 Gallon Planted Tank65 Gallon Planted Tank

Jason

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intermediate_noob
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Looks great FastJ1! Those will start to fill in I bet very soon. I really like what you have done with the wood, you have certainly got a knack for aquascaping. I will be on the lookout in the other forums for some shrimp and see what is available.

Have a good one, and keep the pictures coming.

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Samuel Mulder
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Fastj, those tanks look great. Can't wait to see what they look like when everything matures a bit.

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fastj1
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Thanks, I hope everything goes well. These are the two best looking setups I have at this point. All my other tanks have cichlids so this style wont work. But on advise from Samuel, I have been slowly adding large random river rocks to my cichlid tanks. They look like more natural then most of the fake stuff I had in there before, so soon all my tanks will look this way. Thanks guys!

Jason

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fastj1
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Its been a couple of weeks now, and my tanks are doing great! The plants have settled in and are starting to fill in. But so have the snails! I brought in one of my pond lily bulbs that had some pads coming out and now SNAILS! Dont get me wrong, I like them, just not these ones. Help!!

The 10g with co2 is noticeable greener then the 65g, so one of two things is going on 1) not enough light to bottom of my 65g or 2) its just the co2 in the 10g. Im guessing #2 is the answer. I think im almost in need of a little pruning, but ill do that next week. Otherwise this tank is going well!

Now my 65 is doing ok too, just not as much growth yet, I want to get co2 on this tank soon. The biggest problem im having at this point are these snails.These little guys are like rabbits, and I keep finding little egg clusters on the glass. I think id like to get a couple assassins to help my tank out. Most of the plants are showing new growth and getting taller. I will probable change up the lighting a bit to help with the deeper tank. As im writing this I just realized that there are about 5 or 6 lily pads on the surface, so thats half my lights not reaching the lower plants. Looks like i found a new project to work on!

I also found that most dwarf cichlids go well in planted aquariums. Id like to find some microgeophaga rams, so if you have some pm me back. Sorry about the spelling of these little guys.

Jason

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intermediate_noob
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Hey there FastJ, sorry I did not respond earlier but life get's in the way. So you are correct, the addition of CO2 to any tank will create a noticeable increase in growth. Don't worry though, a nicely lit tank with slow growth will turn out to be less maintenance in the long run. As long as your plants are not yellowing or dieing back, then you should be well on your way to a nice low maintenance planted tank. Now if you want more growth, then start adding the CO2, but like we talked about, on a tank that big it will be difficult to get DIY CO2 pushing out enough consistently to get your levels to the right place.

I posted a response on your other post regarding the Assassin snails, if I have some left they are yours. Mine ate all my pest snails.

Regarding the rams, I do not know of anyone local that breeds these but I do know that Clark's sells them from time to time. Personally, I would take a look at http://www.mainlycichlids.com/Fish_List.html if you wanted to get them because I feel they have a better quality of fish. However, they are not cheap.

Anyway, hope all is going well with your tanks! Talk to you soon.

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fastj1
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Thanks Chris, its really interesting how fast these guys reproduce. I think there is probably about 100 of these creeps cruzing around now so theres a nice buffet line ready for hungry assassins!

I did look at clarks but they want $40 a pair for rams and for 4 year fish, kind of hard for a pair that might not breed. But they are pretty little fish so im kind of teetering, Ive never ordered fish online so Im apprehensive about doing that. What if the fish dont make it here, do you get your $ back,do they send replacements?

Today is tank cleaning day, lets see what I find today!

Jason

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intermediate_noob
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For mainlycichlids.com and all the other places I order from, they normally will ask that you send them photos of the fish and then will either refund the amount or send you new fish depending on their stock. Mainlycichlids ships via Southwest airlines so you go and pick it up at the airport the same day the flight occurs so they are only in bags for about 5-7 hours depending on the flight. I have only order from him once but they were in great shape (actually the Severums and Geophagus you saw). Buying online is a little daunting at first but honestly I would not do anything else after the first time I ordered. Another great place is Anubiasdesign.com. Mark has a Yahoo group where he posts what his suppliers will have available and you can order directly. Shipping is high, but all his fish are great. I had an incident where Fedex did not deliver on time (they were 10 hours late) and 6 Geos did not make it. Mark provided me credit and I ended up getting a bunch of Angels from him. He is a really good guy.

Anyway, hope that helps. And I will try to find some of the Assassins. Otherwise, order them from these guys: http://www.invertzfactory.com/stocklist.htm. They are GREAT and their shipping is awesome as well. They species Anetoma helena.

Anyway, talk to you later!

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lostcrow
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I would not buy Rams from Clark's - they are outrageously priced - as are most things there. Try LiveAquaria.com, I think they are like $8 a piece there. They also have a good variety of fish and other creatures. I have never really had a problem ordering livestock online, and many of my fish have been acquired by this method.

As for your snail problem, I would go with a dwarf puffer. Cheap, super-personable, and they pretty much spend their whole day stalking snails. Clark's actually always has nice ones and the price isn't terrible. Warning: once you have one puffer though, you may fall in love with puffers in general and find ways to incorporate them into every tank you own, like I have.... Smile However, I have no experience with assassin snails, so they may be more efficient if you are hell-bent on eliminating every single snail.

By the way, nice job on your tanks. I know it's difficult keeping plants planted, but you might want to reduce the amount of substrate you have to allow for more water and prevent too much gunk from building up in the substrate and rotting... Just my 2 cents.

Greg

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Samuel Mulder
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I don't know much about puffers, but don't they prefer a brackish environment?

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fastj1
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Thats kind of what I was thinking. I know some places try to pass them off as fresh water fish, but as they get older they prefer brackish to saltwater. I have a green puffer in my saltwater tank and hes doing well. But a few years ago I had the same type of fish in freshwater and they didnt last very long. I also know that plants dont do well with too much salt.

Jason

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lostcrow
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Depends on the puffer. Indian dwarf puffers are straight up fresh water, as is my South American puffer, but he really doesn't have much interest in snails. Interestingly, you would be doing the dwarf puffers at Clark's a favor by purchasing one and putting it in fresh water, because they incorrectly keep them in brackish. I'm always perplexed at how a pet shop with the reputation of Clark's can incorrectly house fish, but I digress.

You're correct about the green spotted puffer too. I have one in heavy brackish, and if kept in fresh water for long periods of time, their health diminishes.

Might be a cool solution to your snail problem, especially since dwarfs don't really get much bigger than 3/4 of an inch. The ones at Clark's right now are very small - probably each only weighing a gram or two.

Greg

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fastj1
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Nice to know. I guess I need to read up on puffers. But if they like snails I think they would do good in my tanks, how aggressive are they to other fish such as endlers or guppies? I have endlers in one and guppies in the other.

Jason

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lostcrow
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As with salt concentrations, the level of aggressiveness depends on the genus/species, as well as on the individual fish. Puffers are most aggressive towards each other. Luckily I have a male and a female so they tolerate each other (male chases the female away when she gets too close - very entertaining to watch). They don't really bother or even notice other fish. Honestly, they spend most of their time surveying the plants and tank walls for snails. With that said, I've seen my one dwarf go after my African leaf fish on a whim, and that fish is probably 10 - 20x the size of the puffer. They're really too small to do much damage though, unlike the larger puffers with their large teeth and powerful jaws. My South American spends all his time swimming up and down the glass and is probably not even aware there are other fish in the tank. On the other end of the spectrum is my brackish fugu puffer, that will methodically kill anything else put in the tank with him if he can catch it (he's flat out bitten some of his other tank mates in half). So I would start with one dwarf, and see how you like it and how he/she takes care of the snails. Since it was my recommendation, if you decide you don't want it, I'll buy it from you and put it in one of my tanks, but I think you'll be pleased.

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fastj1
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I just might have to get 1 or 2. I do like puffer fish as well, just didnt know dwarfs would work in fresh situations. My green spotted puffer doesnt bother any of my damsels but I just wasnt sure.

Jason

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